The usage of calculus is basically essential. $\begingroup$ Most high school physics is taught with very little calculus. The calculus that you will use is very basic. Knowing calculus makes it much much easier. I got a far worse grade in the non-calc class than the calculus based one. You can't simply plug and chug numbers. Most physicists forget what it's like to first learn the material. And even if you need more substantial knowledge about it, you can learn it later if you need to. This course is physics without calculus. The aim of /r/Physics is to build a subreddit frequented by physicists, scientists, and those with a passion for physics. Take the algebra-based physics. If it were college physics then, it's a whole different story. 0 comments. I'm using all these different ways to approach a problem and barely any of them involve physics :/. Bogus. Calculus is not easy to understand without seeing what you are doing. Just take algebra based unless you're into math. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread. This thread is ridiculous. You have three choices when it comes to AP Calculus and they all depend on how you feel about Calc. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. You can start off with AP Calculus AB before moving on to AP Calculus BC to complete the sequence. How many of you have had at least semester of calculus? Press J to jump to the feed. If you don't feel comfortable with calculus, algebra-based physics will. I think that calculus is essential to physics in a similar way, it just doesn't make sense without it. Why do i find physics problems in which we need calculus very easy but struggle to do problems without the need calculus. I'm going to keep at it and hopefully it clicks. Food for thought... you will understand the world around you better if you have a basic understanding of calculus. So if you are learning calculus with physics you are learning … Most premeds at Cal are bio majors, and bio majors only need to take the non-calc based physics, so most people just get by with that... 2) Giancoli - … The end goal is to get into medical school. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers. In algebra-based physics I hear that you just have to memorize the formulas as they are presented. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. I can't tell if it's me that's not getting the material or if it's because of my class. I am currently taking college level General Physics that's non-calculus based, but I'm having a hard time understanding some of the concepts. Calculus was certainly required when I did my A Level in the mid 80s. It tells you formulas that hold true most of the time and then tells you to apply them. 790 views. Good grades are always way more important. First off, it's extremely common to struggle with physics concepts out of the gate (regardless of calculus). I've thoroughly read through ALL these and they're all great words of wisdom!! Berkeley, for example, has both calc and non-calc based physics. Or at least, it can be. Also, couldn't disagree more about calculus based giving a stronger overview of the concepts. AP recommends Physics C (along with AP Calculus AB or Calculus BC) for students aiming for engineering or physical science majors in college. I took AP Physics in high school, which was calculus-based. It seems to me that the people pushing for calc-based physics are the ones that have engineering backgrounds and who just want to take pride in the fact that they did well in calc-based physics. Listen, the OP and almost everyone will have to take Calculus I and maybe Calculus II. Let me break it down for the knuckleheads on this forum. The example last night was a patient on a ventilator and even with 2 extra years of training, much of which was ICU as an R2, simply understanding the concept of the area under a curve and what it means meant that I was better equipped to manage a patient than them. The only real difference will be that the number of problems one can address without the use of calculus is limited, or that solving some introductory problems require a 'faking' of the calculus (newton's second law in the form of dP/dt=F, for instance). (That's the nice way of saying "bad"). Thank you again for your reply. Be careful with the calculus statement b/c the argument can get ugly, newton wasn't solely responsible for its development and if you go into any math forum you can find people debating it. Tangent Troubles Calculus is easy. Actually, phyics is nothing without mathematics without using math any theory in physics cannot be proved. Unfortunately that often makes or breaks someone's desire to continue with physics, science or engineering. (It's not a popular opinion here - But, like people are saying, calculus was made to explain physics and you'll soon have an appreciation for why.). If you can take a … Same thing goes for mechanics; you don't cover angular momentum (a really important topic). I think it's pretty common for even a class billed as "calculus based physics" to actually avoid calculus in practice. You DO NOT want to try to start the Calc sequences without a good understanding of Algebra and Trig (precalc). Even theory of relativity is purely mathematical theory. Pressure tracings are another area, probably a couple others I could come up with as well. Why do i find physics problems in which we need calculus very easy but struggle to do problems without the need calculus. Let’s imagine a world where reptilian overlords take over, and force us to teach them all our knowledge. Knowing calculus makes it much much easier. Papers from physics journals (free or otherwise) are encouraged. Close • Posted by just now. if it is not calculus based physics then the physics class is a joke i found physics 2 to be easier than physics 1 though but they were both calculus based so yah.. both were harder than calculus 1, 2, and 3 Try to remember the derivations of the things you are memorizing, starting from the very basics: F = dp/dt etc. Calculus gives you more insight. AP Math. This is a “minimalist” textbook for a first semester of university, calculus-based physics, covering classical mechanics (including one chapter on mechanical waves, but excluding fluids), plus a brief introduction to thermodynamics. They can handle them if they are interested, but they believe it has remotely nothing to do with medicine... yet they have no problem taking organic chemistry. Please be sure you're not blaming yourself for a terrible teacher. OP, plenty of people have done both and gone to med school. You should take a physics class before taking Physics C, but you don’t necessarily need one for Physics 1 and 2. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose. I'm a math major. Physics will use a lot of mathematics. Issac Newton basically invented calculus to do physics. The bolded statement is partially correct. Advice. You can not understand Physics without calculus. If you are just taking physics to satisfy the pre-req, I would recommend taking the algebra-based course. It's best not to use something they don't understand to teach them new material. Physics has a reputation as arguably the most mathematical of the sciences, but exactly what math you need to do physics varies enormously depending on … Whether calculus based physics will be easier for you will depend directly on the cause of your earlier difficulty. Calculus-based physics or algebra-based physics? Especially since, like you said, I can't just plug and chug the numbers. You won't learn anything useful, though. There won’t be any calculus problems on any quizzes or exams. $\begingroup$ In terms of topology, I think the easiest way to see a major difference between (0,1) and [0,1] is to draw functions with those intervals as the domain. Turning a physics question into a math question is the hardest thing to do in physics. If you feel really comfortable with calculus, calc-based physics will be easier. VMT October 30, 2017, 5:27pm #18. I have taken calculus up to multivariable (or calc III) and I can see all the connections in my head but my physics class does not apply calculus at all. EDIT: I was just messing around, but the consensus is that they independently invented calculus. Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons: JavaScript is disabled. Somebody once said that nothing in Biology makes sense except in light of evolution. Just stay focused and keep things simple. For the most part, I wouldn't say he's a bad professor though because he does clarify some points during lecture. For a moment if you think that there is no branch like maths then physics would be nothing more than philosophy. Deepness will came later when you explore the fundamental equations and their solutions. share. Why not just learn them with calculus instead of having to relearn them later? Getting exposure to all three natural sciences is important for a well-rounded, challenging high school career, … Score of 3: Qualified 4. SO I AUDITED BIOPHYSICS. $\begingroup$ Most high school physics is taught with very little calculus. Even theory of relativity is purely mathematical theory. Thank you so much for your reply, it was exactly what I'm looking for. How bad will it look if I take the algebra-based physics class at another university in summer? Calculus was invented to explain physics. Score of 5: Extremely Well Qualified The advantage of taking AP® The key is how you digest the material. You can start off with AP Calculus AB before moving on to AP Calculus BC to complete the sequence. I'm usually a fast learner too but I don't even think that helps when it comes to physics. tl;dr The class will give you a good conceptual background, but you NEED to take a calc based physics class on top of it as soon as possible to really get it. Besides a couple of specialties, your knowledge of in-depth calculus-physics is minimal. Issac Newton basically invented calculus to do physics. I took a year of both versions and they were pretty much the same class. (This is what I did, since I took … More advanced physics becomes very tedious to say the least without advanced math. Calculus only came into existence when Newton wanted to analyze the properties of orbital motion (which premeds argue has nothing to do with medicine...). The reason is simple, for physics, you need to have rigorous understanding in both physics concepts and calculus itself. Please report trolls and incorrect/misleading comments. I've never taken a physics course before even in high school and the way the teacher is teaching seems like we should already know the basics of physics, even talking about certain calc problems. Other equations are integrated over space. Also it was a lot more fun. If you really want to learn physics, do what another poster said and learn it on your own at MIT ocw, most learning takes place on your own anyway. The easy non-calculus track with a couple of basic courses that non-science majors typically took, and the regular physics track that expected you to be taking calculus at the same time, so that the two sets of courses could complement each other. OP: Only algebra-based is necessary. You can understand physics without calculus. But again maybe my algebra-based was different than yours. Learn physics with calculus with free interactive flashcards. mcat2 October 29, 2010, 11:53pm #3. I actually took non-calculus general physics. Like the Engineering guy said, the MCAT is algebra-based so it is easier for the MCAT (which is all that matters!!!!!!!). In my case, I understood calculus better when I applied the physics part to it. Let me break it down for the knuckleheads on this forum. IF YOU WANT A IN-DEPTH OF PHYSICS AUDIT OR JUST GO TO MIT OCW. You have three choices when it comes to AP Calculus and they all depend on how you feel about Calc. However, most premeds really don't have an interest in calculus or anything math-related. So why should someone take a harder class to "really learn" something that they will never use again, and will not prepare them any better for the MCAT? It just depends on which one is the one you're looking at during that moment of grokness. It's nice to mention how calculus would be used to deal with a situation not actually covered in the class, but intro physics problems can usually be contrived to avoid it. Don't listen to these people on SDN. I wouldn't worry too much about how deep of an understanding you think you're missing out on. Take the calculus-based course. Below is the 5-point scale scoring for any AP® exam as mandated by the CollegeBoard: 1. Before jumping to the statistics, let us first talk about how the exams are rated. Rather unique situation last night, but a resident last night didn't understand concepts that would have been learned in basic calculus course to the detriment of patient care and my sleep last night. So I recommend the Calc based physics because it will be easier to understand the physics if you have taken Calc. Plus, without calculus you will be memorizing, rather than understanding, which can make it much harder. Two years later I was in the graduate stat mech class. Oftentimes, you can see limits on the screen and calculate derivatives and functions automatically. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. This introductory, algebra-based, two-semester college physics book is grounded with real-world examples, illustrations, and explanations to help students grasp key, fundamental physics concepts. You are essentially learning Physics from the 1700s and then memorizing formulas derived later. Hands down, physics is harder than calculus. Unless you have insomnia induced by the fact that you don't know how Faraday's law is derived, who cares? It's a way of thinking that you probably haven't experienced before. If not I am pissed cause I had to take 4 semesters of a foreign language as an engineer. If you wanted they would break calculus I into 2 semesters to slow it down, but it was still calc. Anyone that has studied a reasonable amount of Physics knows this. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread. Rather than trying to tie everything together using calculus, tie it all together using physics. Calculus-based physics is "better" for many students not because it's so important to truly learn the subject matter, but because if you understand where the formulas are coming from, then you're more likely to remember them and have an easy time applying them. In my classes, it can take 2-3 months for even the brightest students to suddenly "get it". Depending on how ambitious you are with physics, you’ll have to learn a lot more than calculus (namely linear algebra, differential equations, and probability). MCAT physics is pretty basic in terms of calculations, so as long as you get the concepts you'll be fine. If you're interested in physics you can always enrich your content knowledge elsewhere. I meant in general. Most degrees have at least one math requirement I thought. No intro physics class uses any linear algebra. My physics teacher was furious with the maths department that they didn't teach it to us at the very start of the year, because he was expecting us to know what he was talking about when he found velocity by differentiating displacement with respect to time. I think that the concept limits is pretty essential in explaining what velocity is, etc. The strange thing is that I know how to solve the problems, but only because I've been recognizing patterns (if that makes sense). Pre-Medical students have a strong understanding of Calculus. This thread is getting ridiculous. My small LAC only has calculus-based physics that is known for an impossible grader. I believe I can handle Cal 1 and intro to engineering but Physics I'm not sure of. $\endgroup$ – Jon Custer Sep 9 '16 at 13:12 Hawker. 1) It doesn't make a difference. Graphing calculators take functions and display them visually for you, allowing you to better comprehend the equations you are writing and manipulating. That's your goal right. Rather than trying to tie everything together using calculus, tie it all together using physics. Homework is like being told, "write an essay on 18th century art." I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess that you're strong in math and always have been. The difference with physics is you have to know WHY you're using certain equation and HOW to use them. ... To the OP, I'd definitely say basic physics is easier than pre calc but neither are too demanding so I really wouldn't sweat it. Listen, the OP and almost everyone will have to take Calculus I and maybe Calculus II. But we will literally never use physics again as physicians (excluding Radiology). If you want to study engineering or physics, you need calculus-based physics, until you need physics with more advanced math tools (linear algebra, vector calculus, differential equations — and if you’re a physicist, you’ll need real and complex analysis, but hopefully your university offers an appropriate upper division-level math sequence). Calculus-based is harder and I feel like algebra-based physics will prepare more for the MCAT. Made it less of a struggle later on. I signed up for advanced physics in the fall, and the course description said it goes more in depth about physics I and II so hopefully that will help me understand some concepts. $\endgroup$ – … Generally, I've heard Algebra based is easier. I had to take the first class in the non-calculus class as a pre-req for the calculus based series. Physics without calculus is like salty food without water. Most students in the class won't understand calculus at all. I hear this often but really don't understand where it comes from. If you only take Physics 1 or 2, then a decent grasp of calculus–specifically, differential calculus that you learn in level 1–is the highest level you need. This will get you there with less stress. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread. Basically, did you use calculus when you took physics and did it help you understand it better? For me, that really helped them stick: if I knew that something was an integral of a certain area or the differential with respect to another property, it was much easier to call up the relationship on the MCAT. I learn more math in physics classes than I do in math classes.